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Magenta
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batchain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, what about the New York suite (part of Home) and the Gathering? Confused
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batchain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"there's this drive to create bland, semi-catchy Pop Rock and stick some often incongrous instrumental bits inbetween."

Grateful for further qualification of this and what you prefer instead.
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batchain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teaflax. Now I know you. I agree entirely, there will never be another Yes; I (like you?) bought "Going for the One" when at school, and didn't like it either, and I am still having trouble playing some sections of "Six Wives". But come on, give the newer bands a chance, they share the same inspiration. All except one of the members of Magenta (there are six) have day jobs, like you and me. Take a chance and go and see Magenta live and tell us what you think in this modern world of prog. Wink
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batchain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bring out your dead! (and I don't say this very often) Confused
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batchain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Take a chance and go and see Magenta live and tell us what you think in this modern world of prog.".

In the immortal words of seabass: "They will rock, I assure you". Wink
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Teaflax



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of "newer" Prog, from IQ to Echolyn, Discipline, Änglagård, Wobbler, Trion and The Tangent's latest. I also love the Indie Prog of the last few years like The Mars Volta, Mew and Pure Reason Revolution. Plus the Prog/Psych-like bands that have sprung from Electronica and IDM like Amorphous Androgynous, Neotropic, Archive and Squarepusher. So I'm really not a neophobe, quite the opposite.

In fact, I'd say that's precisely the thing; I like to be surprised. There's more invention and compositional filigree and detail in smart Pop like Prefab Sprout, Scritti Politti or Supergrass than in many of these praised supposed Prog bands like SB, TFK or indeed Magenta.

I'm just tired of people not listening to the actual compositions when deciding if something is Prog or not.

I'm not saying that Prog automatically = good, I don't consider It Bites a "pure" Prog band, but I adore them. I think Camel are pretty much plain Prog and find them utterly boring.

It's just that if your songwriting sounds like it would fit comfortably on a regular Pop or Rock album once you remove the fiddly and intricate instrumental sections, you really haven't understood what Prog was about, IMNHO.

And Magenta don't even have too many of those - their stuff is fairly straightforward in most aspects except overall structure. I hear people mentioning Yes, Genesis and other giants of the genre, but on Home (the only album I've heard) it takes 17 minutes before the opening of The Journey sounds somewhat Genesisy (if oddly stiff), but is almost immediately ruined by the repetitive and lifeless song lines. Short, cadence-based melodies without anything to make them stand out in phrasing, rhythm or modulation.

Take the entire last section of The Journey, from "live my life in the darkness"; it basically has two short and very common melodic motifs that are pretty much predictable from the end of "bet it all on black". The delivery is also a little rockish, with breathy landings and slides that are straight out of Rock Vocalist 101. Even the really nice section with the Squirish bass walk over the wordless layered vocals doesn't help when they land in exactly the same thing *again*. Thankfully, there's a key change before "We're sipping our CHAM-pagne", which again is just the same melody (and with the stress on the wrong syllable, which is really just sloppy) and repeat to end. Come on.

That's Just Pop Rock with Proggy elements inbetween to me. With a vocalist that wasn't so intent on sounding like Celine Dion's rockier sister and the ability to write melodies that go somewhere unexpected and maybe occasionaly phrase a line in counterpoint to the backing rather than slavishly following it, this might be an okay band.

But this was just surprisngly weak for all the praise it gets.
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batchain
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone, Cliff, help!!!
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batchain
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"In fact, I'd say that's precisely the thing; I like to be surprised. There's more invention and compositional filigree and detail in smart Pop like Prefab Sprout, Scritti Politti or Supergrass than in many of these praised supposed Prog bands like SB, TFK or indeed Magenta."

You were in a band; am I right? Wink
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Teaflax



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

batchain wrote:

You were in a band; am I right? Wink


I've been in a few bands in my day, yes. Wink

But I'm really not much of a musician (I was a vocalist, mostly). I don't know much about musical theory, really. I just know that when it sounds like most everything else, I ain't interested.
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batchain
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the band sacked you; am I right? Wink
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JonnyCappuccino



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

batchain wrote:
And the band sacked you; am I right? Wink


Careful, we'll have to rename you 'Bitchain'! Wink
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batchain
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good night JC. Wink
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batchain
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"supposed Prog bands like SB, TFK or indeed Magenta."

This is very interesting Tea. Neil Morse has been called the "King of Prog" and Home is described as Magenta's "Dark Side of the Moon". Confused
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Teaflax



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

batchain wrote:
Neil Morse has been called the "King of Prog"


That's just sad. Anybody who thinks that such an incredibly Rawky and forcedly "cool" vocalist is even in the running for Arch Duke of Mellotrons or Chancellor of Odd Time Signatures, much less actual King of Prog really must think that Toto and Boston were Prog bands too, and then you're just engaging in historical revisionism.

Morse is an AOR composer who is in parts inspired by Prog, but actual Prog was always quite far removed from its Rock roots, having shed much of that Blues-based compositonal style coming through Psychedelia, Freak Beat and Proto-Prog.

To think that someone who almost consistently writes vocal sections that wouldn't be out of place on a Journey or Toto album is a Prog god is an insult to all what Prog was (and still should be) aiming for. SB and Morse are AOR Prog, an adulteration of the original style. There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking it, but you have to admit that it's a regression from the principles of Prog into something far more mainstream-like.

(And no band I've been in has ever sacked me, whatever that proves)
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batchain
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting Tea. I've read your posts on this thread again and whilst critical, there are balanced arguments; no holds barred mind! I'm sensitive to my band (as are others here) and perhaps I/we see no wrong. Magenta are for me, well, you know. Home departs from their norm and I have said earlier; the earlier albums are more accessible, and live they are, well for me, the best. You didn’t mention Marillion or Frank's solo stuff anywhere; what are your thoughts (I know Frank's not prog; I know that much. But are Marillion Prog IYO? Shocked
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